Panel Report:
There's Nothing Secondary About Ticket Sales

Moderator
Shelley Lazar SLO Limited
Greg Bettinelli eBay
Marty Diamond Little Big Man Booking
Bernie Driscoll TicketsNow
Jeff Fluhr StubHub
David Goldberg Ticketmaster
David Lord RazorGator
Stuart Ross Music Tour Consulting

There's no doubt that secondary ticketing has become a huge business, fueled by technology and a culture of concertgoers who want tickets and want them now. What originated with the street-corner scalper has evolved into a $4 billion-plus industry, and a major bone of contention for ticket resellers, promoters, primary ticketers, venue managers and artists alike.

In fact, the size of the secondary market seemed to be one of the less debated topics during the panel. The heated arguments were more likely to involve questions of how and why secondary ticketing has developed, and whether or not it has become an unstoppable force within the concert industry.

StubHub's Jeff Fluhr attempted to explain early in the discussion that resale sites such as his company's merely developed to provide a service to fans whose needs weren't being met in the primary market.

"When I look at what StubHub's done and eBay and others, it's really just provide access, choice and availability in tickets that really wasn't there in the old paradigm," Fluhr said. "It's all about the fans - what the fans want - and what they were getting out of their ticket buying experiences and their event experiences."

And though the ink had yet to dry on eBay's purchase of StubHub, it was clear that representatives from both companies were on the same page.

Greg Bettinelli from eBay provided a look at the secondary market that complemented Fluhr's thoughts.

He explained that supply follows demand, and as the fans' need for tickets created the secondary market, more and more people embraced it, thereby legitimizing the practice of purchasing through such outlets.

David Lord of Razor-Gator took the idea of supply and demand further and explained that what drives resale sites isn't necessarily artist specific. It's whether a site can satisfy a consumer's needs every time, cementing a long-term relationship with clients who will more than likely make that site the first place they search for tickets every time.

While the panel comprised an equal number of people representing the primary and secondary markets, the audience made one thing clear - those who profit off the secondary market won't easily win any popularity contests among them.

Audience comments ran the gamut from those who agreed the industry's unwillingness to embrace the secondary market eventually ended up "biting us in the ass," to others who reject the idea the secondary market should ever be embraced by the industry.

Glenn Smith from Glenn Smith Presents addressed Fluhr directly, saying that he's changed the face of the music business. Smith suggested that when the industry decides to band together to reconnect the artist and fan, it will likewise unite to push out those profiting from the resale of tickets.

"We used to be able to sell 10,000 tickets a night and it's now 5,000 tickets a night," Smith said. "Someone who paid $350 or $450. can only afford to go to one show now, instead of five."

That sentiment was echoed by other members of the panel, who felt that artists agonize over what they should charge fans for tickets, only to have those same tickets appear on eBay and StubHub in a matter of minutes following the onsale at huge markups.

Music Tour Consulting's Stuart Ross explained the intricacies of how he prices shows. The artist should be satisfied and make the money he needs to make, but this shouldn't be achieved by driving prices higher than what he feels is ethically fair.

Marty Diamond agreed.

"In our office, we go through a fair amount of debate as to what our clients want to charge for tickets. The Arctic Monkeys decide on a ticket price. That's the ticket price they hope to sell their tickets for to their fans - not to a speculator who's going to sell them for more."

And in that statement lies a burning question for the industry. As rampant speculation continues to be an increasingly accepted part of ticket sales, what should those who work within the realm of the primary ticket market do? Embrace the auction, or fight back?

Ticketmaster's David Goldberg said there are ways to do both, as evidenced by Ticketmaster's recent move into the secondary market. The company launched Ticket Exchange and began inking exclusive deals with various venues and sports teams around the country in the last year. And it recently even made the leap overseas, signing a similar deal with London's Wembley Arena.

Goldberg offered a handful of ideas for those looking to take back control of their tickets. Some methods included making tickets available only at will call so fans would need to show ID to get in and making fan club tickets will call only. Other panelists said technology allows transactions that can be analyzed and voided when multiple purchases by speculators turn up.

On the other hand, Goldberg maintained it's in the best interest of the industry to enable the secondary market, perhaps by auctioning a portion of the best seats for fans who might look to auctions.

"If you can provide it all in one place, I'll argue you're actually just going to end up selling more tickets. If you don't put a secondary market offering in the primary market, I think you're telling a certain segment of the fan not to even bother looking at what's still available for sale," Goldberg said. "I want people to still look at what's available. If there's nothing that meets their needs, I'd like to find something that does."

Audience member Jerry Mickelson proposed that one day tickets could be replaced by something as high-tech as handprint scans, leading to the death of scalping. Diamond responded with one of the more memorable quips of the CIC, telling Mickelson that even with that kind of technology, kids will still figure out a way to get into the concert - by showing up at the venue with a severed hand.

And as eBay's Greg Bettinelli later argued, using such overreaching technology could essentially kill the business.

In the end, no one could provide a definite answer as to whether embracing secondary ticketing will help or harm the industry.

But for those who vow to fight it, TicketsNow's Bernie Driscoll offered quite a challenge.

"At the end of the day, the se-condary market is like water coming over the top of Niagara Falls," he said. "You can put certain things in place, put a couple bricks across it, but you can't stop that force."

Dana Parker-McClain