Tribal Casino Venues

Moderator: Steve Redfearn, Viejas Enterprises
James Cullen, Anthem Artists LLC
Tina Lentz, AVA Amphitheatre
Michael Meczka, MMRC Inc.
Christian Printup, Palace Indian Gaming Center
Bob Zievers, The Agency Group

There are 562 federally recognized Native American tribes in the U.S., 185 with casinos. There are 62 Indian gaming casinos in California, generating 250,000 jobs and adding billions to the economy. And, without a doubt, Native American gaming casinos have helped keep the mid-level acts on the road, especially country & western and classic rock acts.

As The Agency Group’s Bob Zievers said in regard to jazz great George Benson, “I guarantee you there’s no other way we can go to Fresno (Calif.), sell out two shows and everybody comes away happy.”

But it was pointed out many times that casinos do not need live entertainment to bring in customers and, if the entertainment gets too expensive, casino CFOs could cut back or even pull the plug on the whole concept.

But then again, it’s part of the ambiance and panache of the casino environment and the panel did not know of any casinos that had discontinued an entertainment budget. The music is still going strong, even if the talent (say, Stacie Orrico) may sometimes have little in common demographically with the casino’s regular customers. And the music continues despite that sometimes casinos have to clear out a bingo hall to make room for the stage, ticking off the regular bingo players in the process.

“Actually, [some execs at my venue] would tell you that what works better than ZZ Top is to spend 92 cents
each on direct mail and make $6 million on promotion, and not have any concerts,” Steve Redfearn said.

He recalled standing outside the Viejas casino one night after it hosted a Pat Benatar concert at the 1,500-seat amphitheatre. As the people exited the concert at around 11 p.m., he counted how many walked back into the casino.

“I started thinking, 8 o’clock on a Wednesday night, average age 38 to 55, everybody’s got babysitters and kids and jobs the next day, show’s over at 10:30 – how many people are gambling? Your top 5 percent are already in the casino and they didn’t want to go to the damned concert.”

He hired Michael Meczka’s MMRC Inc. to take a look at the full revenue the concert season was bringing in, beyond just the evening’s drop. Meczka’s marketing research company handles research for 25 Indian casinos. Other major clients include Taco Bell and Mattel.

“First, recognize that the number of Indian casinos have doubled the amount of local venues for these acts and will continue to increase,” Meczka said. “Specific to revenue stream, it’s pretty safe to say that if you have a 1,500-seat venue, you can pretty much count on anywhere from as little as $500,000 to $1 million incremental revenue [over the season].

“Now, you book it on a Friday or Saturday and you’re not going to make that kind of revenue. There’s no place for your customers to play. But Sunday through Thursday, your customers will be able to play before, after and get to the machines the times they want. The enemy of the player is time and the ally of the casino is time.”
According to Meczka, there are four goals to concerts: Reward the guests, bring in new ones, achieve social and political goals and gain competitive advantages. Mostly, they help establish the casino brand. However, the panelists said time and again that overcharging for talent wouldn’t fly.

“Tribal casinos will not pay $50,000 for an act that’s worth $20,000,” Redfearn said. “Teach [your talent buyers] to say no. The act will always come around. It’s not worth over-paying. My experience says if the act is so important that it has to take up the whole marketing department and the whole tribal council to join in for the show, I’d rather not do the show.”

Lentz and Redfearn were in agreement that it’s better for casinos to use outside, established buyers. Lentz said she could probably save money buying talent in house, but it was better to have an established buyer with a strong name in the marketplace. Redfearn agreed and said that outside buyers can actually bring in better prices than in-house booking.

“One thing I’ve noticed in casinos is chasing after non-routing dates. I recommend when you start working with your buyer, you work with routed shows unless it’s an anniversary or something special,” Redfearn said. “Sometimes buyers who are booking 30, 40 venues give Native American casinos some credibility. They still have to do the job, they still have to deliver, but there is a feeling out there among artists and crews, especially, that some casinos are not as together as others.

“One of Tina’s competitors wouldn’t let Huey Lewis in the building because he didn’t have his I.D. on backstage. There are some things that buyers can help you with.”

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